From: "Northern California Medical Assoc." Subject: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/07 Message-ID: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net>#1/1 Organization: Sonic,Santa Rosa CA,http://www.sonic.net Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Hi -- I'm maintaining an AP system on an IBM RS6000 box right now for my company. We use MegaWest medical billing software. My question is, will AP run on top of Linux as it does on top of AIX? And will this solution scale to the 110 users we have? We will need to replace our aging hardware soon and I wanted to investigate the possibility of going to cheaper Intel hardware rather than a new IBM box. Any answers/opinions would be highly appreciated! Justin From: "Alan Blackmore" Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/08 Message-ID: <7egun7$1gk$1@news.mel.aone.net.au>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Trace: news.mel.aone.net.au 923532839 1556 203.103.75.205 (8 Apr 1999 00:53:59 GMT) Organization: Customer of OzEmail/Access One Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Apr 1999 00:53:59 GMT Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick D3 Linux would be the obvious choice. Northern California Medical Assoc. wrote in message <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net>... >Hi -- I'm maintaining an AP system on an IBM RS6000 box right now for my >company. We use MegaWest medical billing software. My question is, will AP >run on top of Linux as it does on top of AIX? And will this solution scale >to the 110 users we have? We will need to replace our aging hardware soon >and I wanted to investigate the possibility of going to cheaper Intel >hardware rather than a new IBM box. Any answers/opinions would be highly >appreciated! > >Justin > > > From: jsolomon@herbie.unl.edu (Jared Solomon) Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/08 Message-ID: <370caab2.652445847@unlnews.unl.edu>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick Both D3 and jBASE run on Linux. I can not remember off the top of my head whether General Automation has a product that runs on Linux. Both D3 and jBASE from what I have seen and experienced will perform to your expectations on Intel hardware. Jared Solomon University of Nebraska Student ID/IT System On Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:38:15 -0700, "Northern California Medical Assoc." wrote: >Hi -- I'm maintaining an AP system on an IBM RS6000 box right now for my >company. We use MegaWest medical billing software. My question is, will AP >run on top of Linux as it does on top of AIX? And will this solution scale >to the 110 users we have? We will need to replace our aging hardware soon >and I wanted to investigate the possibility of going to cheaper Intel >hardware rather than a new IBM box. Any answers/opinions would be highly >appreciated! > >Justin > > > From: "fubardan" Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/09 Message-ID: <370ec2d2.0@news.cyberenet.net>#1/1 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.213.252.15 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <370caab2.652445847@unlnews.unl.edu> X-Trace: 9 Apr 1999 23:17:38 -0500, fubardan.ppp.cyberenet.net Organization: CyberENET Network Service Provider X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 General Automation uses UNIX developed by NCR SRV4 for it's microprocessor based system. It keeps the PICK data and UNIX data separate, but allows all the backup and connectivity of the UNIX. Pretty nice system and decent cost. Found it to be a pretty stable system. The company I work for is a 3rd party administrator for health insurance, and has been using it for 2 years now. Quite happy with the results. From: Luke Webber Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/09 Message-ID: <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 typhoon.sub.net.au:8080 (Squid/2.2.DEVEL3), 1.0 x13.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 202.182.80.123, 202.182.64.8 Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Apr 09 02:24:58 1999 GMT Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 95) Is it just me or do others out there think there's something slightly obscene about running 110 users on cheap hardware and a free OS? I'm not entirely comfortable with the situation where the DBMS license is the only significant cost of ownership of a major computer system. And this from a US medical company, which, if it isn't flush with money doesn't deserve to exist. Let's face it. Personally, I think an upgrade to a newer, faster RS6000 is in order. The hardware and OS are reliable and you're far less likely to have issues of hardware compatibility. Think of the cost to your business if the system is taken out by some of the problems common to Intel boxes. Oh, and of course my vote is for jBASE as always. Luke In article <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net>, "Northern California Medical Assoc." wrote: > Hi -- I'm maintaining an AP system on an IBM RS6000 box right now for my > company. We use MegaWest medical billing software. My question is, will AP > run on top of Linux as it does on top of AIX? And will this solution scale > to the 110 users we have? We will need to replace our aging hardware soon > and I wanted to investigate the possibility of going to cheaper Intel > hardware rather than a new IBM box. Any answers/opinions would be highly > appreciated! > > Justin > > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own From: "Jeffrey Caspari" Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/09 Message-ID: <7ekkrj$eh8@nnrp3.farm.idt.net>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Organization: IDT (Best News In The World) Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick Luke, Though somewhat tongue-in-cheek your observation is interesting. We are the people (those with 15+- years) that used to view those afraid of automation as old-fashioned, even archaic. We are now subject to the same syndrome (to varying degrees). Our ability to embrace new concepts (OO, new O/S, internet integration...) is not what is used to be. We recall that hardware capable of supporting 100+ users was a 6 figure investment. Realities change faster than our ability to fully acknowledge and appreciate them. It's likely that at some point viable concepts will seem outlandish to even the most progessive of us. The question is when. And who stole my Geritol? Jeff Luke Webber wrote in message <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >Is it just me or do others out there think there's something slightly obscene >about running 110 users on cheap hardware and a free OS? I'm not entirely >comfortable with the situation where the DBMS license is the only significant >cost of ownership of a major computer system. And this from a US medical >company, which, if it isn't flush with money doesn't deserve to exist. Let's >face it. > >Personally, I think an upgrade to a newer, faster RS6000 is in order. [snip] From: Bob J Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/09 Message-ID: <370DDDAA.4FD04FD0@hotmail.com>#1/1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> X-Accept-Language: en Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: news12.ispnews.com 923655447 209.26.131.57 (Fri, 09 Apr 1999 06:57:27 EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 06:57:27 EDT Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick Ah, a revelation! If it costs more it MUST be better! Anybody have any good war stories about how terribly unreliable Intel based computers are??? Luke Webber wrote: > Is it just me or do others out there think there's something slightly obscene > about running 110 users on cheap hardware and a free OS? I'm not entirely > comfortable with the situation where the DBMS license is the only significant > cost of ownership of a major computer system. And this from a US medical > company, which, if it isn't flush with money doesn't deserve to exist. Let's > face it. > > Personally, I think an upgrade to a newer, faster RS6000 is in order. The > hardware and OS are reliable and you're far less likely to have issues of > hardware compatibility. Think of the cost to your business if the system is > taken out by some of the problems common to Intel boxes. > > Oh, and of course my vote is for jBASE as always. > > Luke > > In article <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net>, > "Northern California Medical Assoc." wrote: > > Hi -- I'm maintaining an AP system on an IBM RS6000 box right now for my > > company. We use MegaWest medical billing software. My question is, will AP > > run on top of Linux as it does on top of AIX? And will this solution scale > > to the 110 users we have? We will need to replace our aging hardware soon > > and I wanted to investigate the possibility of going to cheaper Intel > > hardware rather than a new IBM box. Any answers/opinions would be highly > > appreciated! > > > > Justin > > > > > > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own From: webmaster-nospam@allspec-d-o-t c-o-m (Glen Batchelor) Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/09 Message-ID: <370e1846.59429517@news.inttek.net>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <370DDDAA.4FD04FD0@hotmail.com> X-Trace: 9 Apr 1999 10:42:24 -0400, 209.155.114.10 Organization: All-Spec Static Control Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick Umm.. just a sec... umm... OH,.. Nope, I thought I had one. Sorry. I wonder what happened to the whole open systems idea. Oh, btw Linux will run on Sparc, Alpha, and a ton of other RISC systems. Just because a system is open source, doesn't mean it's crap. Actually, I'd bet my life savings on a Linux box running longer, running more reliably and hanging around without major changes longer than any other system. It's portable, it's modifiable, and it's free. You don't get the source code with "high-dollar" OS's so you can't customize or tweak the kernel to fit your needs. As usual, I get the same response, "well, I'll never be modifying the kernel." Well maybe not, but your genius neighbor might get fed up with his OS and start a new Linux project and port it to a new hardware platform. It's constantly being updated and improved by like 10,000 programmers world-wide. Even Microsoft can't touch that kind of coder base. If there's a real need for a driver, make the need known. It WILL happen. Oh, btw.. cheap and inexpensive are 2 VERY different things. We have a low-cost server, not a piece of crap. I'm running an Intel 350Mhz P][, Adaptec 2940-UW with a seagate 18GB UW drive, 128megs 100mhz memory, Seagate Python 12/24GB DAT drive, and all the usual refinements. I'll have about 50 users and phatoms running at the same time. I think the main pro's and con's in this type of discussion can not be based on just the hardware+software. You're gonna be serving a heavy amount of data to terminals and probably nothing else. I'll be serving a distribution company, plus an integrated website, plus an integrated wireless network in the warehouse. Our needs are different. I've been through 2 computers the 3 years I've been here. (Mainly because the Pentium 75mhz was getting a little slow for 20 users) The cost has not been anywhere near an RS6000. We don't really need that kind of power anyway. I thought about, and discussed it.. and the cost just could not be justified on a system like that. What if something fries, can you call up PC Mall and order a new one for 100 bux? What if the fans choke one night and your board overheats. What kind of expense and time are involved in replacing the main board? I've never dealt with RS6000 because there's never been a need for that much server. We've been on AP/Pro since the eary 90's and I've put a ton of programming effort into custom apps and re-writes. I was not gonna lose all that *and* pay extra to port to a new type of DBMS. We chose D3 for the code side.. and Linux for the cost+robustness. Everyone has their own priorities in an upgrade. Mine was code compatability, cost, and speed. Regards, Glen aka Ryengoth http://www.all-spec.com/picksource/ >Ah, a revelation! If it costs more it MUST be better! Anybody have any good war >stories about how terribly unreliable Intel based computers are??? > >Luke Webber wrote: > >> Is it just me or do others out there think there's something slightly obscene >> about running 110 users on cheap hardware and a free OS? I'm not entirely >> comfortable with the situation where the DBMS license is the only significant >> cost of ownership of a major computer system. And this from a US medical >> company, which, if it isn't flush with money doesn't deserve to exist. Let's >> face it. >> >> Personally, I think an upgrade to a newer, faster RS6000 is in order. The >> hardware and OS are reliable and you're far less likely to have issues of >> hardware compatibility. Think of the cost to your business if the system is >> taken out by some of the problems common to Intel boxes. >> >> Oh, and of course my vote is for jBASE as always. >> >> Luke >> >> In article <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net>, >> "Northern California Medical Assoc." wrote: >> > Hi -- I'm maintaining an AP system on an IBM RS6000 box right now for my >> > company. We use MegaWest medical billing software. My question is, will AP >> > run on top of Linux as it does on top of AIX? And will this solution scale >> > to the 110 users we have? We will need to replace our aging hardware soon >> > and I wanted to investigate the possibility of going to cheaper Intel >> > hardware rather than a new IBM box. Any answers/opinions would be highly >> > appreciated! >> > >> > Justin >> > >> > >> >> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- >> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own > From: "Anthony W. Youngman" Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/10 Message-ID: #1/1 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: thewolery.demon.co.uk:158.152.222.21 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 923728431 nnrp-04:3846 NO-IDENT thewolery.demon.co.uk:158.152.222.21 Organization: vinny-puch MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: "Anthony W. Youngman" Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick In article <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Luke Webber writes >Is it just me or do others out there think there's something slightly obscene >about running 110 users on cheap hardware and a free OS? I'm not entirely >comfortable with the situation where the DBMS license is the only significant >cost of ownership of a major computer system. And this from a US medical >company, which, if it isn't flush with money doesn't deserve to exist. Let's >face it. The problem is some people equate value with price :-) :-( (amused comment, but it's not true for linux :-( > >Personally, I think an upgrade to a newer, faster RS6000 is in order. The >hardware and OS are reliable and you're far less likely to have issues of >hardware compatibility. Think of the cost to your business if the system is >taken out by some of the problems common to Intel boxes. Just install Beowulf - If half the cluster falls over your users will probably just comment "things seem a tad slower today". Just hope some twit doesn't put a boot-virus-infected floppy in as that is a very good way of trashing Intel - OS-independent, too ... At least with linux it's easy to recover. > >Oh, and of course my vote is for jBASE as always. > My vote is for linux :-) -- Anthony W. Youngman - wol at thewolery dot demon dot co dot uk Trousers with a single hole in their waistband are topologically equivalent to a doughnut. These sugarcoated trousers have yet to catch on at fast-food outlets! (SuperStrings by F. David Peat) If replying by e-mail please mail wol. Anything else may get missed amongst the spam. From: "mike ryder" Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/11 Message-ID: <7er47v$jgk$1@barcode.tesco.net>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Organization: Tesco ISP Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick I was reading about Beowulf recently - do you have any experience of loading / running / installing this product and does it work ? Anthony W. Youngman wrote in message ... >Just install Beowulf - If half the cluster falls over your users will >probably just comment "things seem a tad slower today". Just hope some >twit doesn't put a boot-virus-infected floppy in as that is a very good >way of trashing Intel - OS-independent, too ... At least with linux it's >easy to recover. From: jsolomon@herbie.unl.edu (Jared Solomon) Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/12 Message-ID: <3711eacc.324441261@unlnews.unl.edu>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <7er47v$jgk$1@barcode.tesco.net> Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:33:56 +0100, "mike ryder" wrote: >I was reading about Beowulf recently - do you have any experience of loading >/ running / installing this product and does it work ? Beowulf Linux works, but not the same way some of us are thinking. Beowulf just implements a message passing interface that makes a pile of PC's act like a hive. The key to making a Beowulf work for you is you have to have a program that makes use of several processes. If you have a single-process program running on a Beowulf cluster, you are going to be disappointed. I've heard of a few geo-science and astro-science problems running from DB material on a Beowulf, but not many... Like redhat says at http://beowulf.redhat.com "This is rocket science" Jared > >Anthony W. Youngman wrote in message ... >>Just install Beowulf - If half the cluster falls over your users will >>probably just comment "things seem a tad slower today". Just hope some >>twit doesn't put a boot-virus-infected floppy in as that is a very good >>way of trashing Intel - OS-independent, too ... At least with linux it's >>easy to recover. > > > From: "Anthony W. Youngman" Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/12 Message-ID: #1/1 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: thewolery.demon.co.uk:158.152.222.21 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <7er47v$jgk$1@barcode.tesco.net> X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 923945534 nnrp-08:17455 NO-IDENT thewolery.demon.co.uk:158.152.222.21 Organization: vinny-puch MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: "Anthony W. Youngman" Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick In article <7er47v$jgk$1@barcode.tesco.net>, mike ryder writes >I was reading about Beowulf recently - do you have any experience of loading >/ running / installing this product and does it work ? > >Anthony W. Youngman wrote in message ... >>Just install Beowulf - If half the cluster falls over your users will >>probably just comment "things seem a tad slower today". Just hope some >>twit doesn't put a boot-virus-infected floppy in as that is a very good >>way of trashing Intel - OS-independent, too ... At least with linux it's >>easy to recover. > Not personally, but the most spectacular report is the one recently about IBM and their NetFinity servers. The one where they used $150,000 of hardware and the engineer went out to buy the software from the local bookstore the day before... It equalled the Cray record for rendering, and was one third the previous second best. On the second run, they deliberately crashed a couple of machines in the cluster half way through, but it had no effect on the final result. Unfortunately, my company is planning to go "MS Only" :-(, so we're currently moving from PI on Prime EXL's to UV on NT, with plans to move to SQL Server. And our Primes have 64Mb RAM at best and are rebooted once every few months (if we remember, just in case), while the NT boxes are running out of power with twin Pentium IIs and 1/2Gb of RAM, and are rebooted every week to keep them stable :-( -- Anthony W. Youngman - wol at thewolery dot demon dot co dot uk Trousers with a single hole in their waistband are topologically equivalent to a doughnut. These sugarcoated trousers have yet to catch on at fast-food outlets! (SuperStrings by F. David Peat) If replying by e-mail please mail wol. Anything else may get missed amongst the spam. From: "Clint Byrum" Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/12 Message-ID: <7etk5i$8h4@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <7er47v$jgk$1@barcode.tesco.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Organization: CR Computing Solutions X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Apr 12 1:13:38 PM PDT 1999 Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick Its sad the way upper managers think sometimes. They're scared of making the right decision, so they decide to make a baaaaaaaaaaaaaad decision. Typical Human/Sheep Mentality. Anthony W. Youngman wrote in message ... >In article <7er47v$jgk$1@barcode.tesco.net>, mike ryder > writes >>I was reading about Beowulf recently - do you have any experience of loading >>/ running / installing this product and does it work ? >> >>Anthony W. Youngman wrote in message ... >>>Just install Beowulf - If half the cluster falls over your users will >>>probably just comment "things seem a tad slower today". Just hope some >>>twit doesn't put a boot-virus-infected floppy in as that is a very good >>>way of trashing Intel - OS-independent, too ... At least with linux it's >>>easy to recover. >> >Not personally, but the most spectacular report is the one recently >about IBM and their NetFinity servers. The one where they used $150,000 >of hardware and the engineer went out to buy the software from the local >bookstore the day before... > >It equalled the Cray record for rendering, and was one third the >previous second best. On the second run, they deliberately crashed a >couple of machines in the cluster half way through, but it had no effect >on the final result. > >Unfortunately, my company is planning to go "MS Only" :-(, so we're >currently moving from PI on Prime EXL's to UV on NT, with plans to move >to SQL Server. And our Primes have 64Mb RAM at best and are rebooted >once every few months (if we remember, just in case), while the NT boxes >are running out of power with twin Pentium IIs and 1/2Gb of RAM, and are >rebooted every week to keep them stable :-( >-- >Anthony W. Youngman - wol at thewolery dot demon dot co dot uk >Trousers with a single hole in their waistband are topologically equivalent >to a doughnut. These sugarcoated trousers have yet to catch on at fast-food >outlets! (SuperStrings by F. David Peat) > >If replying by e-mail please mail wol. Anything else may get missed amongst >the spam. > From: "Homer Hazel" Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/12 Message-ID: #1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news.rdc1.sdca.home.com 923887334 24.0.188.79 (Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:22:14 PDT) Organization: @Home Network X-MSMail-Priority: Normal NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:22:14 PDT Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick Luke, Your response was interesting. Did I perceive correctly that you think the value of an item is contained in its retail price? Must we pay tons of money for something before it is worthwhile? I don't know if your tongue is in your cheek or not, but I've used Intel processors and products for years and I don't understand what you mean about the "problems common to Intel boxes." I don't have problems with Intel processors or with Intel clones such as AMD. What problems are you speaking of? Larry Hazel Luke Webber wrote in message news:7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com... > Is it just me or do others out there think there's something slightly obscene > about running 110 users on cheap hardware and a free OS? I'm not entirely > comfortable with the situation where the DBMS license is the only significant > cost of ownership of a major computer system. And this from a US medical > company, which, if it isn't flush with money doesn't deserve to exist. Let's > face it. > > Personally, I think an upgrade to a newer, faster RS6000 is in order. The > hardware and OS are reliable and you're far less likely to have issues of > hardware compatibility. Think of the cost to your business if the system is > taken out by some of the problems common to Intel boxes. > > Oh, and of course my vote is for jBASE as always. > > Luke > > In article <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net>, > "Northern California Medical Assoc." wrote: > > Hi -- I'm maintaining an AP system on an IBM RS6000 box right now for my > > company. We use MegaWest medical billing software. My question is, will AP > > run on top of Linux as it does on top of AIX? And will this solution scale > > to the 110 users we have? We will need to replace our aging hardware soon > > and I wanted to investigate the possibility of going to cheaper Intel > > hardware rather than a new IBM box. Any answers/opinions would be highly > > appreciated! > > > > Justin > > > > > > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own From: rjc@trump.net.au (Robert Colquhoun) Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/13 Message-ID: <37132edf.13901048@news.trump.net.au>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Organization: Trumpet Software International Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick Hi Luke, On Fri, 09 Apr 1999 02:24:58 GMT, Luke Webber wrote: >Is it just me or do others out there think there's something slightly obscene >about running 110 users on cheap hardware and a free OS? I'm not entirely >comfortable with the situation where the DBMS license is the only significant >cost of ownership of a major computer system. And this from a US medical >company, which, if it isn't flush with money doesn't deserve to exist. Let's >face it. Ummm, i guess you could look at it like that.... ...or you could start asking why do you have to pay so much for the DBMS licenses? I mean for the system i work on 6 years ago a new server cost > 1/2 million dollars for hardware an operating system and almost $100k for database licenses. Whether the new machine went ahead was largely dependent on the cost of the hardware and operating system the database fees were obscured in the 'slipstream'. Today the equivalent processing power is around $20k and the database licenses are still around $100k. Whether the project goes ahead is almost totally dependent on the database fees. How long will that last? If there is a VAR that is willing to take the risk on a free database there would be quite large windfall profits.....or more likely one of the larger database vendors will start pretty much giving away their database licenses....IBM(and make money on maintenance/additional services) or Microsoft(to get into a segment they haven't been especially succesful in) spring to mind. ;-) - Robert From: "Clint Byrum" Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/13 Message-ID: <7evnga$1d7@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <37132edf.13901048@news.trump.net.au> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Organization: CR Computing Solutions X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Apr 13 8:22:50 AM PDT 1999 Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick Robert, you make a good point. I wonder what copyrights/patents/?? Pick/MicroData still hold on the MultiValue DBMS. It would be nice to have an open source multivalue system. If nothing else it might convince some colleges to teach Pick if the systems were free. I would LEAP at the chance to create a Pick style, open source system. The only question is, are there any laws preventing that? Robert Colquhoun wrote in message <37132edf.13901048@news.trump.net.au>... >Hi Luke, > >On Fri, 09 Apr 1999 02:24:58 GMT, Luke Webber >wrote: >>Is it just me or do others out there think there's something slightly obscene >>about running 110 users on cheap hardware and a free OS? I'm not entirely >>comfortable with the situation where the DBMS license is the only significant >>cost of ownership of a major computer system. And this from a US medical >>company, which, if it isn't flush with money doesn't deserve to exist. Let's >>face it. > >Ummm, i guess you could look at it like that.... > >...or you could start asking why do you have to pay so much for the >DBMS licenses? > >I mean for the system i work on 6 years ago a new server cost > 1/2 >million dollars for hardware an operating system and almost $100k for >database licenses. Whether the new machine went ahead was largely >dependent on the cost of the hardware and operating system the >database fees were obscured in the 'slipstream'. > >Today the equivalent processing power is around $20k and the database >licenses are still around $100k. Whether the project goes ahead is >almost totally dependent on the database fees. > >How long will that last? If there is a VAR that is willing to take >the risk on a free database there would be quite large windfall >profits.....or more likely one of the larger database vendors will >start pretty much giving away their database licenses....IBM(and make >money on maintenance/additional services) or Microsoft(to get into a >segment they haven't been especially succesful in) spring to mind. > >;-) > >- Robert From: webmaster-nospam@allspec-d-o-t c-o-m (Glen Batchelor) Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/13 Message-ID: <37136a9b.408239001@news.inttek.net>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <37132edf.13901048@news.trump.net.au> <7evnga$1d7@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> X-Trace: 13 Apr 1999 11:11:11 -0400, 209.155.114.10 Organization: All-Spec Static Control Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:25:03 -0700, "Clint Byrum" wrote: >Robert, you make a good point. I wonder what copyrights/patents/?? >Pick/MicroData still hold on the MultiValue DBMS. It would be nice to have >an open source multivalue system. If nothing else it might convince some >colleges to teach Pick if the systems were free. I would LEAP at the chance >to create a Pick style, open source system. The only question is, are there >any laws preventing that? > If there were, why are there so many 'varieties' of the pick-style DBMS? I think it's time for an open source DBMS to go with Linux. Don't copyright laws prevent duplication for profit only? What's wrong with making a free twin of Windows? With all the $ Microslop makes, do you think that would really stand up in court? The same goes for Pick. If they lose *that* much of the market share due to an open source DBMS, would they actually spend the $ and time to sue hundreds of programmers world-wide for making a free system? I think we should go for it. I've been wanting to help with an open source DBMS for many months now. If it could be included as a Linux project, there could be X support for it. An actual GUI based DBMS that doesn't run like crap. (VB and NT). The options are out there.. we just have to start it. Glen aka Ryengoth http://www.all-spec.com/picksource/ >Robert Colquhoun wrote in message <37132edf.13901048@news.trump.net.au>... >>Hi Luke, >> >>On Fri, 09 Apr 1999 02:24:58 GMT, Luke Webber >>wrote: >>>Is it just me or do others out there think there's something slightly obscene >>>about running 110 users on cheap hardware and a free OS? I'm not entirely >>>comfortable with the situation where the DBMS license is the only significant >>>cost of ownership of a major computer system. And this from a US medical >>>company, which, if it isn't flush with money doesn't deserve to exist. Let's >>>face it. >> >>Ummm, i guess you could look at it like that.... >> >>...or you could start asking why do you have to pay so much for the >>DBMS licenses? >> >>I mean for the system i work on 6 years ago a new server cost > 1/2 >>million dollars for hardware an operating system and almost $100k for >>database licenses. Whether the new machine went ahead was largely >>dependent on the cost of the hardware and operating system the >>database fees were obscured in the 'slipstream'. >> >>Today the equivalent processing power is around $20k and the database >>licenses are still around $100k. Whether the project goes ahead is >>almost totally dependent on the database fees. >> >>How long will that last? If there is a VAR that is willing to take >>the risk on a free database there would be quite large windfall >>profits.....or more likely one of the larger database vendors will >>start pretty much giving away their database licenses....IBM(and make >>money on maintenance/additional services) or Microsoft(to get into a >>segment they haven't been especially succesful in) spring to mind. >> >>;-) >> >>- Robert > > From: "Clint Byrum" Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/13 Message-ID: <7f00rm$3hu@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> <7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <37132edf.13901048@news.trump.net.au> <7evnga$1d7@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <37136a9b.408239001@news.inttek.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Organization: CR Computing Solutions X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Apr 13 11:02:30 AM PDT 1999 Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick I am thinking it would be a very cool thing to create, except the GUI based DBMS, I don't think there's any need for native support of "gui". Just use the model of Translating the BASIC code directly to C. That way, calls to external C routines aren't that difficult. I think we need to start a new thread for this discussion though... > If there were, why are there so many 'varieties' of the >pick-style DBMS? I think it's time for an open source DBMS to go with >Linux. Don't copyright laws prevent duplication for profit only? >What's wrong with making a free twin of Windows? With all the >$ Microslop makes, do you think that would really stand up in court? >The same goes for Pick. If they lose *that* much of the market share >due to an open source DBMS, would they actually spend the $ and time >to sue hundreds of programmers world-wide for making a free system? I >think we should go for it. I've been wanting to help with an open >source DBMS for many months now. If it could be included as a Linux >project, there could be X support for it. An actual GUI based DBMS >that doesn't run like crap. (VB and NT). The options are out there.. >we just have to start it. > > Glen aka Ryengoth > > http://www.all-spec.com/picksource/ > From: "Nikolai Lukin" Subject: Re: Newbie Pick-on-Linux question... Date: 1999/04/09 Message-ID: <7ek8vi$va3$1@zware.space.ru>#1/1 References: <7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.rssi.ru X-Trace: zware.space.ru 923641650 32067 193.232.196.80 (9 Apr 1999 07:07:30 GMT) Organization: RSSI X-MSMail-Priority: Normal NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Apr 1999 07:07:30 GMT Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick Justin, If you have been addicted to a high level comfort of maintaning RS/AIX system provided by its incredible reliability, you would be shocked by a lower quality of ANY Intel-based Unix flavor OS. Continue with D3/AIX on a modern IBM, otherwise you will take a sifnificant risk. Northern California Medical Assoc. wrote in message news:7egqkl$pee$1@ultra.sonic.net... > Hi -- I'm maintaining an AP system on an IBM RS6000 box right now for my > company. We use MegaWest medical billing software. My question is, will AP > run on top of Linux as it does on top of AIX? And will this solution scale > to the 110 users we have? We will need to replace our aging hardware soon > and I wanted to investigate the possibility of going to cheaper Intel > hardware rather than a new IBM box. Any answers/opinions would be highly > appreciated! Luke Webber wrote in message news:7ejodi$g9u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com... > Is it just me or do others out there think there's something slightly obscene > about running 110 users on cheap hardware and a free OS? I'm not entirely > comfortable with the situation where the DBMS license is the only significant > cost of ownership of a major computer system. And this from a US medical > company, which, if it isn't flush with money doesn't deserve to exist. Let's > face it. > > Personally, I think an upgrade to a newer, faster RS6000 is in order. The > hardware and OS are reliable and you're far less likely to have issues of > hardware compatibility. Think of the cost to your business if the system is > taken out by some of the problems common to Intel boxes. I absolutely agree with this. It makes no sense to save on matchbox when buying cigars. Nick